Whats your opinion

Why is it that we always seem to hear of drummers in groups needing some help in the studio but not guitar players, keyboard players etc. It seems to me that it is much more common to have a studio jock fill in for, or over dub the drummer's parts than it is for other musicians. Any thoughts???

The drummer is usually the first guy to lay down tracks. This means he is the guy laying down the foundation on which the rest of the song is built. If he can't lay down a solid groove, or lock onto the click track, it's going to be blatantly obvious. The more tracks that are recorded, the easier it is to hide mistakes. Many semi-pro engineer/producers get more and more lazy as the tracks are going down. Meaning, after the drums and bass are 'perfect,' they let their ears relax, and timing or groove problems get passed over for other instruments.

I've had sessions where I knew my drum part was locked in with the click or the sequenced parts, because the producer wouldn't let me leave until they were. Because of this, I knew beyond a doubt, that my parts were rock solid. Months later, when I hear the final tracks, the rhythm section is horrible. Nothing is tight, and the groove is sloppy. If *every* musician isn't held to the same standards as the first guys in, then *everybody* ends up sounding bad.

Another reason for drummers getting dissed, is that we seem to overplay, until we grow more as musicians. Anymore, when I'm in a session, I try to play as little as possible. Then I cut that in half. All the tastiest grooves ever recorded, have been pretty simple. Drummers who laid down the best songs, have played very few, and very simple fills. Think Gadd, Porcaro, Ringo, etc.

Always leave them wanting more, not less. The best compliment in the world is, 'we want more.' The worst criticism is, 'we need less.'

in my opinion, any good drummer should be able to hold their own in the studio. i did my first studio work with my very first band when i was 16 and recorded an album when i was 17. i wouldn't consider myself a child prodigy, nor was i one of those kids that started playing before they could walk. i played drums for the first time in 8th grade and just happened to fall in love with it. when i was 15 i bought myself a kit and it's been an ever expanding love since then. if you're not solid enough to play the music in the studio, practice. there is no reason why a drummer that plays the songs with their band day in and day out should be able to play them with no problem in the studio. it's not really that much different. just stay focused. i've never recorded to a click track, but it can be intimidating for a lot of people. if you can keep time well enough, then play without one. the only time i've ever run into a problem with this is if i needed to do a quick patch. when it was hard to catch the groove we had been playing, i would just do another take (this is only good for one- or two- take kind of people, not ones that take 20). usually, the second take would be one i felt better about any way. my band's last album was entirely first takes with the exception of two songs. one was three days old and took 4 takes to get the intro 100% and the other took 3 takes to get the feel we wanted. i'm not trying to anger anyone that is in favor of the 'drummer switching' practice, but if i do... sorry.

sarah

No offence, but this really shows the perspective from which you give your opinion. A good studio player MUST feel right at home with a click track, period.

Again, no offence

I agree 100% Mike. To be the best at our craft you have to be versatile, or at the very least open to using the tools of the trade. If you've ever had to run loops or a sequence your tune would change.

And I have been the 'other' drummer on a number of occasions. Whether or not the drummer is competent, time is money. There is an amazing number of young musicians making albums, but many have little or no studio experience. That will be frustrating on all involved when your working on drum tracks for three days on one chorus...

I'm sure that Sarah fits in well w/ Mr.Happy shoes. However to more diverse and work on the grand scale you have to adopt the ways of the industry.

Just my opinion......

Josh

Hiya Folks ,

I agree with Mike 100%..... the rythym section has to be tight or nothin else will work - even great vocals hehe ......many drummers I've met do not or cannot play to a click track....... for whatever reason...........in short, they do not play with precise enough timing for recording ( where it becomes rather noticable ) . I would think a drummer who could play to a click track is a drummer who is goin to be in demand.

When you think about it........ most music that you hear on the radio features ARRANGED music ( even if its ACDC ) where everyone is playing a part towards the OVERALL sound - which is what matters and what one remembers ( ie the song ). When was the last time someone went in a music store and said I would like to listen to your CDs of drum solos iya Folks ,

I agree with Mike 100%..... the rythym section has to be tight or nothin else will work - even great vocals hehe ......many drummers I've met do not or cannot play to a click track....... for whatever reason...........in short, they do not play with precise enough timing for recording ( where it becomes rather noticable ) . I would think a drummer who could play to a click track is a drummer who is goin to be in demand.

When you think about it........ most music that you hear on the radio features ARRANGED music ( even if its ACDC ) where everyone is playing a part towards the OVERALL sound - which is what matters and what one remembers ( ie the song ). When was the last time someone went in a music store and said I would like to listen to your CDs of drum solos [ because I want to buy them ], guitar solos, bass solos ? Of course, the fine tuning of playing of ability is admirable but even, for example, one of the greatest drummers Buddy Rich would not be able to sell any records ( cept maybe to drummers hehe ) Unless other ppl played alongside him......

My point in a nutshell, its the Big picture that matters the most...........

MY OPINION ONLY

Have a Great Day All

Michael

Carl Upthegrove wrote in message ... Why is it that we always seem to hear of drummers in groups needing some help in the studio but not guitar players, keyboard players etc. It seems to me that it is much more common to have a studio jock fill in for, or over dub the drummer's parts than it is for other musicians. Any thoughts???

Point is..... The Drumming, AND everything else, for that matter, SERVES THE SONG..... Period. Anything else is bullshit. Best Eddie Green